Too bad he doesn't perform the same trick within our television sets and speak a few words. Now THAT would be something!
Mythor
· 2 years ago
Yeah I don't believe Jesus is real but even I'd give him a bit more credit than to leave mysterious images in his likeness on assorted earthly objects. You'd think he'd at least have scribbled a few words down for us as well!
Melanie Stephan
· 2 years ago
I enjoyed the image of Jesus in the tree. However I thought the image on the Shroud of Turin more powerful. Then it is very possible that Jesus did a self portait of himself within the tree. Can't prove that he didn't can you. Now in Revelation there is meantion of a Tree. Could this be the tree he was speaking of? Then if Jesus really did return in, say, human form would anyone believe that? I mean when Jesus was here no one believed him. To prove that he was a liar they nailed him to a cross. Made of wood from a tree. They showed him who was right. You don't lie about being lord in Heaven. Pound, pound, pound. I would think that if Jesus did return everyone would think he was lying. Really people haven't changed that much in the last thousand or two years have they? Cars have changed, sure. If Jesus was here now he would probably trade his Jack Ass in for a Ford Pinto. Otherwise things are pretty much the same as they were then. Melanie Stephan
Mythor
· 2 years ago
No, not everyone would think he was lying, but it's not out of line to ask that he prove his divinity, either. :)
I can't prove he didn't create that image, no, but the burden of proof does not lie with me, it lies with those who would claim that Jesus did create the image. The claim is their's, not mine. Same as if Jesus did appear on Earth the onus would be on him to prove that he is who he claims - blind faith is tremendously foolish.
People have changed a great deal in the last hundred years, never mind the last thousand or so. Most of us have given up the archaic beliefs that were prevalent prior to the 20th century, but some are proving harder to leave behind than others...
Mas68
· 2 years ago
Exactly right Mythor! The burden of proof lies on those who make the claims!!! blind faith or even faith alone is not proof. I can have faith in the green pixies that show themselves to me at the bottom of my garden. Is the burden of proof on me to support that claim to make others believe or is it on others to prove they DONT exist???
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go feed my pixies. They get very angry if I forget.
Melanie Stephan
· 2 years ago
Proof and the Burden of Proof. Lets say a Cop pulls you over and writes you a Ticket for say DWI. You haven't been drinking. What he is smelled is cough medicine cause you have been sick. Then the Cop pulls you out of the car and beats the crap out of you. When you go to Court the burden of Proof is now on you. Not only are you accused of being drunk, which is a lie, the Cop is saying that you resisted arrest. Your innocent, and you didn't resist arrest. Why is the Cop doing this to you. Maybe your black, Hispanic or he just wanted to take in out on someone. Who knows. Now the Burden of Proof is on you. It was just you and the cop. His word against yours. You have to prove that your innocent. Then it turns out that your registration has expired on your plates. That looks bad for you. You just forgot to renew you plates thats all. Then there is that parking ticket last month. Turns out that you now have a history. This looks bad for you. Maybe your not good looking, you look like a criminal and you have two marks on your drivers license. Now your totally innoncent. Yet the Burden of Proof is on you. You can't prove shit. You go to jail for 60 days for having a cold. Plus you got the crap beat out of you. It is just not fair.
Melanie Stephan
· 2 years ago
Lets say Jesus has returned. Lets say you give him the benefit of doubt cause you just went through some heavy shit and no one believed you. After what you just went through are you going to put the Burden of Proof on Jesus Christ. Would it hurt to listen to what he has to say without coming down on him. I mean after having the Cops coming down on you like that do you really want to come down on Jesus. Then think of what Jesus had to go through. What is worse getting beat up by the cops or being nailed to a cross. Jesus had a trial too. They found him guilty too. And he was innocent. Lets say you don't believe it is him but he is fun, interesting and what he says makes sense. You just feel good around him, he is someone that you can hang out with, plus he makes you smile. Didn't you have a hard time proving that you were innocent. Does the Burden of Proof still rest on Jesus? Would it kill you to tell him, yea man, I believe you. It is not like your going to go to Hell for believing in Jesus Christ. So what do you have to loose?
Jesus Christ
· 2 years ago
Yes, I have returned. You can find me here, but not in a tree. Thanks for thinking about me. Jesus
Mas68
· 2 years ago
I have my sanity to lose.. but hey, if he comes here and talks to me personally I'll give him a listen.
Mythor
· 2 years ago
No, the burden of proof is on the people making the accusations - they have to prove you were under the influence of alcohol, smelling it on your breath is not proof, it merely raises suspicion. They would perform a roadside breath test and possibly (in America at least) a "field sobriety test" if you failed both of those you can still request a blood test be taken, which would come out clean if it is only cough medicine. If it's his word against yours then the cop still has to prove his side of the case first - the presumption is of INNOCENCE, not of guilt.
However you are talking about legal proceedings that are in place for the benefit of society. The police have to be allowed to make certain assumptions based on observations so that they can maintain the rule of law. This is very far removed from someone claiming they are Jesus Christ. Even the most religious people on the planet would ask for some kind of sign that he is who he claims to be and not just yet another crazy whackjob claiming to be Jesus.
Mythor
· 2 years ago
The "benefit of the doubt" is fine, however "benefit of the doubt" implies that there is some evidence to support the claim that he is Jesus, some evidence to support that he is not. You then choose to believe the evidence that he is, over the evidence that he is not. In any event he has proven to you on some level that he is who he claims to be, even if you don't acknowledge that he has done so on a concious level.
You're also doing what it is common for the religious to do - set up specific circumstances in which it is impossible for anyone to disagree with you because you continue to pile "fact" upon "fact", such that to disagree with you would obviously be absurd.
Fortunately you don't do it very well - yes, it would be great to have someone to talk to in such a fashion. "I" have just undergone a terrible trial after being wrongly accused of many things. Someone who is fun, interesting and who can make sense and make me feel good would be great. However, if that's all he's doing, he could just as easily be John Smith from the local video store as he could be Jesus Christ. Simply saying "hey dude, I'm Jesus!" is not proof that he is, nor is being a relatively intelligent, fun to be around kinda guy. And if you did believe that he's Jesus and you're wrong then yes, you are going to Hell, actually. You would have been following a false Prophet, and that's a no-no.
"Jesus" would be the one claiming he is Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour and so on. It doesn't hurt at all to listen to what he has to say. It does hurt to blindly believe what he's saying without any evidence to support it. That's how cults get started.
You need to seriously examine your belief system, Melanie. Blind faith in things is no way to go through life and it will bite you on the ass one day, if it hasn't already. The correct position to begin from is a position of skepticisim, or at worst, of neutrality. If you are predisposed to believe in something before being presented with any confirming details then you are also predisposed to being taken advantage of by the unscrupulous of the world.
Melanie Stephan
· 2 years ago
Mythor, I think you made some good points. I think you explained to me how you think. I think other people could be in your line of thought too. Now we all have a sense of right and wrong, without someone contantly telling us we did wrong or right. Now if I did something wrong, I know it. Maybe I thought I could get away with it or I just didn't care. Anyway shit always has a way to come back to kick us in the Ass. Now if someone came along and said he was Jesus and he wanted all of his followers to get a 666 tatoo, you might think he was a false prophet. That would raise a few flags with me. Then there are prophets that want to raise Jihad cause they hate the Jews. Then everyone is killing each other over Jihad. I would say they had a false prophet too. Then there is Jesus, he loves to talk to people, he talks of love, forgiving others, you just feel good being around him. He makes life feel good, and he is witty as hell, da, da, da, da, da. I would think he could be the true prophet. I would think maybe Jesus has returned. He hasn't tripped up anywhere. I would think a false prophet would trip themselves up somewhere, like when they say to spread Islam my the sword. Swords are a symbol of violence. Who wants to live in a world of violence? Now Jesus said to turn the other cheek. I had a hard time understanding that, but now it makes sense to me. It makes sense to me that God would like you to make up your own mind without being forced to at the end of a sword. Then they have Islamic priests teaching people to hate Jews and Whites. I think they are just a bunch of racists. Without a doubt I would say that Mohammed is a false prophet. Now Mohammed never died for anybody. He had lots of wives and lots of children. He didn't suffer worth shit. If he died of anything it was from effing his brains out with all of those wives. Now if Jesus did return, Do you think you could sort out a false prophet from a true prophet with out Jesus performing some kind of magic? Now Jesus did say that he is coming back. How do you know it is really him? Like you said, I would listen too. Judge later. Melanie Stephan
Mythor
· 2 years ago
Just because you don't agree with Mohammed's message, doesn't make him a false prophet anymore than my not agreeing with Jesus' message makes him a false prophet. The message is true in that it is what the respective deities want their followers to do. Some would say that Allah does not exist and thus any message Mohammed had spread would be false, some would say that God does not exist and thus any message Jesus had spread would be false, some would say both do not exist, some would say they're actually different faces of the same entity...
And don't forget that Christianity has had its own problems when it comes to people trying to spread it via the sword. ;-)
All Comments
I can't prove he didn't create that image, no, but the burden of proof does not lie with me, it lies with those who would claim that Jesus did create the image. The claim is their's, not mine.
Same as if Jesus did appear on Earth the onus would be on him to prove that he is who he claims - blind faith is tremendously foolish.
People have changed a great deal in the last hundred years, never mind the last thousand or so. Most of us have given up the archaic beliefs that were prevalent prior to the 20th century, but some are proving harder to leave behind than others...
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go feed my pixies. They get very angry if I forget.
If it's his word against yours then the cop still has to prove his side of the case first - the presumption is of INNOCENCE, not of guilt.
However you are talking about legal proceedings that are in place for the benefit of society. The police have to be allowed to make certain assumptions based on observations so that they can maintain the rule of law.
This is very far removed from someone claiming they are Jesus Christ. Even the most religious people on the planet would ask for some kind of sign that he is who he claims to be and not just yet another crazy whackjob claiming to be Jesus.
You're also doing what it is common for the religious to do - set up specific circumstances in which it is impossible for anyone to disagree with you because you continue to pile "fact" upon "fact", such that to disagree with you would obviously be absurd.
Fortunately you don't do it very well - yes, it would be great to have someone to talk to in such a fashion. "I" have just undergone a terrible trial after being wrongly accused of many things. Someone who is fun, interesting and who can make sense and make me feel good would be great.
However, if that's all he's doing, he could just as easily be John Smith from the local video store as he could be Jesus Christ. Simply saying "hey dude, I'm Jesus!" is not proof that he is, nor is being a relatively intelligent, fun to be around kinda guy.
And if you did believe that he's Jesus and you're wrong then yes, you are going to Hell, actually. You would have been following a false Prophet, and that's a no-no.
"Jesus" would be the one claiming he is Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour and so on. It doesn't hurt at all to listen to what he has to say. It does hurt to blindly believe what he's saying without any evidence to support it.
That's how cults get started.
You need to seriously examine your belief system, Melanie. Blind faith in things is no way to go through life and it will bite you on the ass one day, if it hasn't already. The correct position to begin from is a position of skepticisim, or at worst, of neutrality. If you are predisposed to believe in something before being presented with any confirming details then you are also predisposed to being taken advantage of by the unscrupulous of the world.
Just because you don't agree with Mohammed's message, doesn't make him a false prophet anymore than my not agreeing with Jesus' message makes him a false prophet. The message is true in that it is what the respective deities want their followers to do. Some would say that Allah does not exist and thus any message Mohammed had spread would be false, some would say that God does not exist and thus any message Jesus had spread would be false, some would say both do not exist, some would say they're actually different faces of the same entity...
And don't forget that Christianity has had its own problems when it comes to people trying to spread it via the sword. ;-)